I have mentioned this in a few other places around the web, it received a few upvotes but no responses. I searched this subverse to see if you all had already discussed this or not. I found one thread about her, and it discussed the other details but not these couple details in particular. So I decided I would just toss it out there to add for the ever-growing pile of reasons for suspicion about CPP.
So as many of you already know, she abruptly left CPP and the likely fake reason given was family emergency, and we know that it was likely a fake reason because the articles and comments about the event are loaded with snide animosity towards her and other hints that something happened between her and James, apparently something that was significant enough for Carole to just up and leave everything behind over it, even though the articles and comments make it clear that for years Carole never had a problem dealing with criticism over her rigid dedication to being true to her culinary art/creations. She gave no fucks. But something happened that made her give so many fucks that she up and left everything behind. What was it? And why were people eluding to it, yet nobody willing to come right out and say what it was?
One of the sources listed on the wikipedia page about CPP is this: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/article/13037971/how-are-bucks-fishing-camping-and-comet-ping-pong-faring which the other thread here shows that you all have already seen. But have you all noticed the comments? Specifically the 10th comment from a "Carole Fan" posted in 2009.
The whole comment is:
"Working with artists is always an intense experience and there is always two sides to every story. I happen to know Carole's side and it would make those dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous. I will only say that if they knew what really happened, they like me would no longer dine at either establishment.
Carole is the real deal. A real artist with moods and feelings just like all of you. She is a real talent and we were fortunate enough to have her cook for us for a long while in DC.
Continue the rabid dialogue and we will continue to lose our deep talent to the superficial, rabid, uninformed fodder.
Good job City Paper for lowering the bar a little more on DC culture."
Of course the part that stands out to me the most is, "I happen to know Carole's side and it would make those dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous. I will only say that if they knew what really happened, they like me would no longer dine at either establishment."
What the hell "really happened"? Why would people choke on the food and then feel nauseous? Why was there an effort to smear Carole with such snide ad hominem attacks? Why were people eluding to what happened, but not willing to say it outright?
I looked at Tim Carman's (the author of the WashingtonCityPaper article) profile page on the website, but it was completely blank. But I did find him over on Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/tim-carman/?utm_term=.3ad08b63dece "Food writer and $20 Diner — Washington, D.C."
He was also praised as "Best Food Writer" and has had a successful career in doing so, his opinion seems to be held in high regard by many people in that sphere, so for him to write a piece like that on Carole was likely a powerful attack on her career in general. Why did he do that? Write a piece just to take jabs at her and also explain how the place is better of without her and doesn't miss her. Why go out of his way to do that? Just because he didn't like her gruff personality and that she was firm on the stance that she considered her food an art, not a tailored service? Yeah right.
And I guess it's just ironic that he's now a Washington Post employee. Where he also wrote this piece:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/why-bens-chili-bowl-hasnt-rushed-to-remove-traces-of-cosby/2015/07/08/04d62d1e-2569-11e5-aae2-6c4f59b050aa_story.html?utm_term=.172c5d8b7159
In which he tries to white knight for a restaurant who won't take down Bill Cosby's photo or stop showing support for Bill Cosby after it broke into mainstream that that Bill Cosby has a history of drugging and sexually abusing people, with the author saying that, "Our moral compass may prefer to see things in black and white, but the Ali family seems to embrace the murky shades of gray in between. After all, they have known Cosby as a saint for longer than they’ve known him as a monster. Some have argued that the family could just remove his images from public spaces while maintaining a private relationship with him away from the limelight. But I’m not sure what such a move would say about the family’s fine-tuned sense of morality: Would they whitewash their history and jettison a family friend to ensure the health of the business?"
And, "What’s more interesting to me, though, is what the Ali family thinks," after describing how Cosby was a good friend to them for decades and even helped them in their "darkest hour".
So a guy who is supposed to write about food, and for the most part does, took it upon himself to explain that standing by someone who drugs and sexually abuses people is essentially a matter of embracing the grey rather than succumbing to "black and white" thinking (which is a term for what is considered dysfunctional in psychology) and imply that it would be morally wrong to turn their back on Cosby. So we know this guy will go out of his way to cover for sympathizers or culprits when it comes to heinous sexual predation, even if it's barely relevant to what he normally writes about.
And we know that in 2009 he went out of his way to smear Carole Greenwood after she apparently took qualms with something about CPP and up and left.
I want to know her side of the story. If anyone digs and finds it, I would be appreciative if they share what they find.
RebelSkum ago
Credited you with the info on the Wiki page. Feel free to add more! http://pizzagate.wiki/index.php?title=Carole_Greenwood
Investigate1999 ago
GOOD WORK, OP!! YES, I'M SHOUTING! You deserve great praise.
While I have your attention, would you please use the quote format for quotes that are larger than a partial sentence? To do it, just use a greater-than sign before each paragraph. Sometimes, you should use a greater-than sign and a space.
SheSaidDestroy ago
Thank you for the tip, will remember for the future.
Investigate1999 ago
Awesome! You're welcome.
By the way, if you've got time, you could go back and edit those quotes. :-)
SheSaidDestroy ago
Yes I will, doing it now, thank you.
Investigate1999 ago
You're welcome. Thank you, too.
oldskeptic ago
The year prior to her departure was when the ANC commissioner pointedly asked Alefantis if he obeyed food safety laws, or spat in customer's food.
I had always assumed the commissioner got an earful from a disgruntled Comet employee. Maybe it was Carole herself. That would explain the bitterness directed towards her by Alefantis' supporters, even after her departure.
ProbablyHoly ago
I would love to see the source of that.
oldskeptic ago
Easiest way to get an overview is to use Google search term: Frank Winstead
SheSaidDestroy ago
You are referring to this, yes?
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/city-desk/blog/13055188/frank-winstead-gone-wild-the-recordings
According to that piece, the meeting at which the accusations were made took place the Tuesday prior to JUN 19, 2008.
It has been a bit confusing trying to figure out when exactly Carole left CPP. Wikipedia claims, "she left her position as executive chef and co-owner in 2006 citing urgent family matters and other personal interests," according to the current version of the page, perhaps a typo? The articles used as sources are dated 2009 but don't actually specify when Carole left (though they are used as the sources for the claim by wikipedia for the year she left). And one of Carole's own resume profiles claims she was at CPP until May 2010. https://culinaryagents.com/talents/28115-carole-wagner-greenwood
Trying to figure out what really happened just leads to more oddities.
oldskeptic ago
At the meeting, Alefantis did not reply to the accusation. The meeting was packed with his supporters. They made quite a ruckus, and there was no further discussion of the topic. I have the suspicion that Alefantis knew that the commissioner had more than just rumors on the subject.
SheSaidDestroy ago
Well looking at Frank Winstead's youtube channel, it seems he was the sort of person who had no problem filming people if he thought they were doing nefarious or irresponsible things, and his only video related to CPP is just him being upset about literal ping pong by the street.
Like here he films someone for idling in their truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D6B-TUsAw
Here he is upset about air pollution from a school bus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neAVFfQa468
Here he is mad about a bus blocking a crosswalk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkd_796fwBU
He kind of has the hall monitor vibe to me. He didn't just ticket traffic offenses. He video taped them and let it be known to the internet that he was out there delivering traffic justice. He does honestly seem like the sort of guy that might go on a full-blown crusade if he was told no about ticketing CPP over the tables or something.
Doesn't mean CPP isn't suspicious as hell for other reasons, but I honestly don't think this Frank Winstead guy had any real dirt on CPP, or he definitely would have used that dirt.
SpontaneousSpectator ago
Carole walked in on Mr. Jimmy Comet ordering a back door special with her 17 year old son Dylan. That's why she left.
anonentity ago
Aha seventeen does it for me, its the only hint that Pizza gate has hard evidence., I commend Carole for getting out with her and her son, no wonder all the pedo press fell on her, she would be considered a retard for stopping the grooming of her son.
SheSaidDestroy ago
Again, need some type of source. And anonymous people popping up after the pizzagate investigation making such claims is not a source. They could easily be people hoping to spread disinfo and cause confusion / throw people off leads from within the investigation.
ProbablyHoly ago
https://i.imgsafe.org/1c7ea89b40.png
https://i.imgsafe.org/1c8072a7bf.png
SheSaidDestroy ago
Those are not sources. What are you trying to pull here. The first is only asking a question. The second doesn't even attempt to answer my question. And they are all made after the investigation was already underway. A source would be someone making the claim prior to when the investigation took off. Otherwise it is just unsourced and thus disinfo.
Edit: Sorry I came off harsh above, I mistakenly took you for the person I was commenting to originally. I apologize.
ProbablyHoly ago
You missed the nimbleAF on 11/11 asking how one might contact Carole regarding, disclosures.
Has there been earlier mention of Carole Greenwood, than this? I am dubious of that fact but open to being proven wrong.
SheSaidDestroy ago
But how is that a source for the claim that she left CPP because JA had sex with her son in the kitchen? That doesn't make any sense as a source for such a claim.
justanotherpizza ago
Here is an interview with her from 2008 I haven't seen anyone post before:
http://www.donrockwell.com/index.php?/topic/8180-a-chat-with-carole-greenwood/
but skimming over it, its all food related, with some background to relationships with farms for sourcing ingredients.
I want to support someone elses claim about reading about a scandal that caused her to quit. the gist is that the person writing claimed to have a friend visiting who knew Carole and told them that Carole walked in on James engaging in intercourse with her son. he was working there as extra help and apparently saw James as some kind of mentor-father figure. she did not want to divulge it for professional - career reasons, but apparently did not hesitate to spew vitriol in private why she was leaving. i have tried to find it in my reddit pizzagate archive, but it could have been a screencapped /pol/ thread.
she is on twitter https://twitter.com/carolegreenwood/
SheSaidDestroy ago
I don't want to support any claims from anonymous people on the internet who pipe up with their claims after the pizzagate investigation took off. If someone can provide a claim that was from back then, prior to this whole current situation, then I would be appreciative and willing to take it onto consideration. But not random people who pop up now with such claims, who could very well just be people who are deliberately trying to cause confusion from within. I also saw that forum interview, though I can only conclude that it is someone claiming to be Carole and using the username "childballad" although the likelihood of it being legit is high since it was admin-vouched.
justanotherpizza ago
I absolutely agree that the rumor of why she resigned is hearsay at best. we really do not know. I don't think it is knowable unless Carole herself speaks. even then she would have no incentive to be completely honest if it is embarrassing to her family.
to be honest i would rather like to ask where the financing came from to set up bucks and then comet, who was involved.
SheSaidDestroy ago
That is important, too, yes. Where did the hearsay originally come from? If it was just someone popping up on voat or elsewhere after the investigation started, then it is very likely disinfo. Why would people be trying to throw out disinfo when it comes to this lead in particular?
justanotherpizza ago
I read it sometime in middle november before the reddit sub was banned. I thought it was in a thread on reddit but I cant find it, and don't have enough interest to dig through archived chanboard posts. I don't know if it was disinfo, but I can say that the story was not repeated anywhere else, no one else pushed it, and I can't find any record of it anymore. So there is that. I know I read it, but will not vouch for any authenticity. There is much more useful and tangible evidence related to James A. that is makes much more sense to pursue.
anonentity ago
But I thought it was common knowledge, she came to the restaurant unannounced one night and found her son and A at it. End of story.
SheSaidDestroy ago
Feel free to provide any type of source. Otherwise there is no reason whatsoever for me to take you seriously.
anonentity ago
It was in a blog, forgot which sorry, the writers mother was a friend of Carol , who had confided in her, and said that she came back to the pizza shop one night unannounced and found them engaged in sexual activity. Her son was young , she immediately got pissed off and ended the partnership. Its on the web somewhere. vvhttp://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/blog/13125543/adios-carole-greenwood
SheSaidDestroy ago
Rumors without sources hurt the investigation. It hurts the investigation even if it's the case that the rumor would be strong evidence if it were true. It makes it look like we are just making shit up and hurts our overall credibility as a group.
anonentity ago
That's why I never pushed it, but just kept it in the back until her name was mentioned. During the original blog where this came up, it looked like it was fairly true. Nowhere on the net was it possible to get her sons age, and now it seems all her information pages cant be found.. funny that.
VieBleu ago
good coverage - that quote by Carole Fan only leads me to further speculation about what is in Alefantis' pizza sauce, as hinted to the audience darkly by Magnificent Ape in the full length version of it's notorious "We've All Got Preferences" video.
Orange_Circle ago
James Alefantis desk... https://i.sli.mg/yj2acS.jpg
SheSaidDestroy ago
Let us please refrain from using information/images that are not directly related to reasons to suspect people of possible nefarious activity. Nothing in that image suggests such activity. At most it has the element of homo-eroticism but this is not a witch hunt for gay people. Please take care not to accidentally make it look like one.
Orange_Circle ago
I think the image is germane to the conversation at hand because of the book Alefantis chose to include in this photo shoot. The images in the book are clearly young.
SheSaidDestroy ago
I disagree. The photo on the left page is clearly a fully grown woman to me. The photo on the second page might be an older teenager at the youngest. Unless you mean that the book was identified and all the pages were looked at. Is that the case? Without knowing the name of the book, I am unable to search for it if it has been mentioned here, sorry.
Orange_Circle ago
There you go: teenager. He's picked the book and opened it to those pages. That's on him for positioning it to appear in what he knew would be a widely viewed photo.
SheSaidDestroy ago
Alright, I'll concede to an extent. At a glance I thought it looked like a 17-19 year old at youngest, so I thought it was a dig at him being gay. With my nose practically to my monitor trying to look closer, I guess it could be 15-16 range.
Orange_Circle ago
In a photo shoot like that, nothing is left to chance.
Same with Tony Podesta placing stuffed plush toys in the magazine shoot for his "art" collection.
VieBleu ago
but this is how he IMAGINES his desk - (best to turn your volume off) :32
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1487801
PedoHunter69 ago
I cant seem the find where I read it, i think it was in a comment on a blog post about Carole leaving CPP, this was way before pizzagate
jealoushe ago
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/goingoutgurus/2009/06/seismic_changes_at_bucks_fishi.html
SheSaidDestroy ago
Thanks for this addition. This is James' side of the story, in which he claims that she left to pursue other things, which meant up and leaving everything behind to move away and start over. He also says that she "sparred" with another chef in the kitchen, though does not say over what. It is also never directly said that this is why she left, probably because she might retort against it, and also it makes no sense that she would leave over one heated argument, given that apparently for years she was used to people 'sparring' with her over her stance that her food was art and she would not change it for customers. We still don't know her side of the story or "what really happened".
jealoushe ago
for sure. All the articles say "to head to NYC to pursue art etc"
SheSaidDestroy ago
Sabotage from within is a very real thing and a strategic move on the part of those who work against us. We should never underestimate a group that is largely led behind the scenes by a powerful and successful think tank like Podesta. Significant claims with no sources should indeed be very suspect.
PedoHunter69 ago
I read somewhere (dont have link but im sure its out there) that she walked in on Alafantis fucking her son in the comit ping pong kitchen. Said he was around 18 years old, maybe younger
VieBleu ago
Don't repeat this heresay - the person who purveyed this was mis or dis info and was shut down.
crazimal ago
I think it had some connection to the washingtoncitypaper.com article on greenwood's departure, maybe a comment in another article at that site that referenced greenwood. not sure if same "carole fan" poster tho.
bona fide internet rumor at this point.
Bornforbattle74 ago
Yeah I read it also, not sure where now
standalone ago
Stop trolling
PedoHunter69 ago
not trolling for real,im on your side, i forget where I saw it,it was awhile ago, ill try to find it
VieBleu ago
Don't bother I saw the thread it was nothing but a rumor carried forward no supporting evidence obviously a misdirect.
standalone ago
You are trolling. She doesn't have a son.
PedoHunter69 ago
Im not trolling, it was written, just have no idea if it true, im not making it up
PedoHunter69 ago
Im not sure if its true or not, if she doesnt have a son its obviously fake. But it was a comment someone wrote on a blog post about her leaving CPP abruptly. Someone posted that a close friend of Caroles told them that. This was way before pizzagate ever happened
standalone ago
Another interesting comment
SheSaidDestroy ago
To me that looked like just another snide dig at Carole, attacking her for her gruff personality even though no specific examples of her verbal abuse are given, aside from a very weak one in which she asks him to clarify his gender (which in the context of all this gender label/confusion stuff lately, could actually be a polite question taken out of context to make it sound like it was rude, who knows).
I find it more interesting that
HomeboyChrisBanned ago
I'll buy the fuckin her son theory. Seems to make the most sense to me. Human meat in the food is also plausible imo. Then dispose of the rest in the oven.
VieBleu ago
When you discover cannibalism being purveyed in your kitchen, it's hard to get your heart back for cooking so to speak.
SheSaidDestroy ago
I'm not going to assume that it was cannibalism and not going to speak of it as though it is fact. It is a possibility, but we want to avoid speaking like it as though it is fact. This is how the MSM can grab something and be like, "There is a conspiracy theory that CPP puts human parts in their food," despite no evidence, which is then used to make all of us sound crazy/retarded. Let us please try to just focus on what is clearly suspicious and show that we are open to reasonable explanations if they exist.
VieBleu ago
No assumption required by you. I rephrased my statement, it is a general theorizing type of statement.
I agree it is best to call our ideas about things theorizing, what ifs?, may be's, possibles and allegedly so, as we continue to dig and look at what we find. I do think it is okay to theorize in this manner, as do scientists looking at phenomenon and creating experiements to uncover facts, or police when operating on "hunches".
SheSaidDestroy ago
I agree to an extent. I know I criticize a lot and can come across in a sort of 'holier than thou' kind of way. It is not my intention, though I know I can come across that way. I just want us to be as strategic as possible. I want us to succeed.
standalone ago
Excellent find! This is indeed very consistent with our suspicions that there is something very wrong at Comet Ping Pong. Now she could also be talking about a food related matter, like something to do with hygiene.
DontTreadOnMemes ago
Just throwing this out there... Their menu claims they serve "house made fennel sausage". You don't think there's something up with their ingredients right? Just total speculation... but the part about "dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous" implies to me that there is something up with the ingredients they are using there.
SheSaidDestroy ago
That comment completely on its own wouldn't be suspicious, as I'm sure competitive chefs in such areas might be more likely to get verbose/melodramatic when arguing. However, what is suspicious (on top of the mountain that is everything else) is that whatever really happened is something that caused a big enough fuss for Carole to up and leave everything behind, for people to want to smear Carole and try to hurt her career and for people to hint at knowing that something happened but not say what it was. This was clearly more than a heated argument, because Carole was well known for not being phased by heated arguments. Why the need to smear her, and why the need to hide what really happened? What was apparently bad enough for all of this to result from it? She completely moved away, a total fresh start, like she was being run off and/or trying to escape from something. All of that is what makes me also pay more attention to the part about choking on the food and feeling nauseous.