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The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:47 am
by doginventer
The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:57 pm
by shewhomustbeobeyed
I don't understand how people keep saying that the Archangel Michael and Messiah are the same. I don't see it.
Do you know of this belief, is it standard SDA teaching? If so, could you explain it to me, please.
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:31 pm
by doginventer
shewhomustbeobeyed wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:57 pm
I don't understand how people keep saying that the Archangel Michael and Messiah are the same. I don't see it.
Do you know of this belief, is it standard SDA teaching? If so, could you explain it to me, please.
I’m not an SDA, and I can’t remember the details of the whole thesis now, but from what I recall it included the idea that the name Michael meaning “Who is like God”, or even “He that is what God is,” could only belong to the son of God.
There are also many interpretations of various scriptures which construe the apparent great power, and high standing, and the juxtaposition of Michael with Satan, as being presented in terms that could only apply to Yahusha.
I looked into the idea quite a while ago now, and came away feeling unconvinced but not sure in myself what I believe.
As much as there were verses which seemed to make a very plausible case, there were others which clearly seemed to refute it.
I guess it’s time to have another look.
As if I didn’t have enough on my plate. :roll:
Cheers SWMBO! :)
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:01 pm
by shewhomustbeobeyed
Well, as long as I'm not the only one who's confused, I don't feel so bad. I've always had a hard time believing that satan would dare fight with Messiah over Moses' body. Yahusha would easily kick his ass, imo.
As if I didn’t have enough on my plate. :roll:
The work never stops.
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:51 pm
by doginventer
shewhomustbeobeyed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:01 pm
Well, as long as I'm not the only one who's confused, I don't feel so bad. I've always had a hard time believing that satan would dare fight with Messiah over Moses' body. Yahusha would easily kick his ass, imo.
Lol, you certainly are not the only one.
As I understand it Satan’s point had some merit and needed to be put because Moses was a sinner and as such would have been rightfully claimed by Sheol until the time of the resurrection.
I don’t know of any scriptural reason given for why this was not so.
As if I didn’t have enough on my plate. :roll:
The work never stops.
Quite, and in truth I wouldn’t have it any other way :)
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:40 pm
by shewhomustbeobeyed
doginventer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:51 pm
As I understand it Satan’s point had some merit and needed to be put because Moses was a sinner and as such would have been rightfully claimed by Sheol until the time of the resurrection.
I don’t know of any scriptural reason given for why this was not so.
Satan had a right to to his soul, it seems he got it. But what made him think he had a right to to his corpse? Rather silly, fighting over dead flesh. Unless there was some plan to 'do' something to his body, like a public display or cannibalistic ritual. idk
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:46 am
by doginventer
shewhomustbeobeyed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:40 pm
doginventer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:51 pm
As I understand it Satan’s point had some merit and needed to be put because Moses was a sinner and as such would have been rightfully claimed by Sheol until the time of the resurrection.
I don’t know of any scriptural reason given for why this was not so.
Satan had a right to to his soul, it seems he got it. But what made him think he had a right to to his corpse? Rather silly, fighting over dead flesh. Unless there was some plan to 'do' something to his body, like a public display or cannibalistic ritual. idk
Interesting. Eew. Sounds possible to me.
Given the great reverence and the amount of preparation given to the bodies of the righteous dead in scripture I think the body can’t be considered merely meat.
The other thing that occurs to me is that possibly the body was required for the transfiguration, or that it was needed to prepare a translated body for it.
Re: The Fish Gate (brokenness) pt. 1 - David Leone’ [2.09.10]
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:40 pm
by doginventer
doginventer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:51 pm
shewhomustbeobeyed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:01 pm
Well, as long as I'm not the only one who's confused, I don't feel so bad. I've always had a hard time believing that satan would dare fight with Messiah over Moses' body. Yahusha would easily kick his ass, imo.
Interesting; just going through a Walter Veith (& Martin Smith) presentation on Michael and he mentions the similarities between Michael disputing with Satan over Moses’ body and the LORD pleading for Joshua (Zechariah 3:1-5) Which begs the questions; was Moses a “brand plucked from the fire”, and what exactly is a brand plucked from the fire?
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? ZECHARIAH 3 KJV